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9 11
Us: Afraid to die
Them: Looking forward to martyrdom
Us: Lots to loose (Lives equipment money votes)
Them: Nothing to loose (Extremely poor limited equipment no democracy)
Us: Squabbling over the war every which way - stay in, get out, no direction, political positioning
Them: Death to America
How do you win a war like this?
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9 11
I was not refering to the "average joe" Iraqi (sp?), i'm refering to those we actually are trying to engage. Problem is we are fighting it in someone elses yard, eventually that someone tires of your presence and you end up with more enemies than you started with. My observations are that when the plan and path is clear ahead everyone is in agreement - no problem. The bickering starts when the plan falls apart and there is no clear contingency (as evidenced by all the bickering). Looks to me like we are stuck for now - can't win, can't pull out. Not proposing any solutions here - not bashing anyone - bloody glad I am not a politician - not as proud an American as I used to be - we underestimated this one.
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9 11
"As good Americans we do not need to be back here creating more obstacles and casting doubt for the men and women who are doing the job of getting it done."
So just shut up and say nothing? Statements like these smack of an authoritarian high-handed and autocratic approach, the complete opposite of what we are supposed to stand for. Unfortunately they don't just appear in web discussion groups they are also used by our leaders. We do ourselves a great disservice when we advocate the silencing of those that dissent. It's also truely "unamerican" although there is plenty of shameful historical evidence that it happens.
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9 11
"You believe that every one has a GUARANTEE to FREE SPEECH no matter what because they have a RIGHT TO DISSENT?"
"Dissent is dangerous and I see no where in the Constitution of the United States where anyone is encouraged to dissent or that it is a Right."
"No insult intended, but have you really ever read the U.S. Constitution, every word? [paraphrased] Where do you find that you have a Right to dissent ..."
US Law 101
That would be the very first amendment. I'm getting the distinct feeling that participating in this discussion is not going to be very enlightening. FYI a copy of the amendment is attached to this post as is a definition of the word dissent. Should anyone wish to dissent please know it's your first amendment right, and as such constitutionally protected, those soldiers out there are supposedly fighting to keep that right for us, during war and peace time. Oh and by the way the freedom of the press is also protected by this amendment (seeing as that was questioned as well).
From First Law:
U.S. Constitution: First Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Dissent (from Wikipedia)
Dissent is a sentiment or philosophy of non-agreement or opposition to an idea (eg. a government's policies) or an entity (eg. an individual or political party which supports such policies). Antonyms include agreement, consensus and consent.
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09-13-2006, 08:48 
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